liangsuilong

下代 22nm Atom，我睇到既資訊都依然係話 13H2 推出市場。

而代工廠既 20nm 係 13H2 只係 ramping up. 只 ...
Puff 發表於 2012-11-23 17:49

咁就唔知道喇，之前有條新聞話 Tablet 版嘅 22nm Bay Trail 要到 2014H1 先出貨。但係我就覺得好奇怪咯。22nm 已經出左好耐，LP 工藝冇理由仲要搞咁耐啵，而且咁遲出四核 A15 都收尾等 A57 四核出，到時出境真係好難打。

TSMC 20nm 我覺得佢地真係可以係 13Q4 出到少量貨畀 HP 嘅 A/N Desktop GPU 同埋 Mobile SoC 用，前提係佢地真係可以按照原定計劃順利進行。問題就係佢地通常都跟唔上計劃而且技術上通常有唔多順利。哈哈哈！

cksin

1. ARM 嘅效能足夠，且用家足夠多嘅話，軟件商唔會坐視哩個市場唔理。Adobe 已經出左 Photoshop Touch 畀 ...
liangsuilong 發表於 2012-11-23 12:23

    1. 本身 ARM 設計上就吾係用黎做desktop做到既野!  你見到而家PS cs5都已經可以推到部desktop(約300w, 125wTDP,4GBram)好盡, 點解係ps touch 又得? 咁係因應ARM 本身有限的效能PS touch 本身亦都減少左好多功能 同D手機影相apps 相差冇幾.

2. 我為左回你話"2013 年 Tablet 同高階 Smartphone 主打都係四核心 A15（Krait），中階會係以新製程高頻 A9 或雙核 A15（Krait） 主打，加上 Atom SoC 果粒 GPU 歷來都唔算特別勁。Intel 嘅 Mobile 之路仲係好長"  其實如果係五年前, 好多人都會覺得而家既智能手機冇咩用, "邊有人用手機上網做野嫁,返公司做啦, 咁細個mon 上網又慢""3吋mon 56kb 上網咁慢, 用電好似倒水咁,點用黎睇片呀" 你今時今日有冇林過其實幾年前冇咩可能既野, 今日通通都做到. 其實個問題係睇下係件電子產品比到幾多既功能出黎既姐, 有用既功能,人係會改變自己既使用習慣

3. oh, sorry 原來你連OS係咩意思都吾知...

4. 我正正係對文中,咁樣既比較方法好不滿, 有好大既誤導成份, 令到好多對電腦一知半解既人以為ARM 都可以做出一粒效能追得上入門級 x86 嘅 CPU

cksin

Qualcomm licenses the ARM ISA and does their own core design. At least it is not promoted as an ARM ...
Puff 發表於 2012-11-22 22:02

    哦原來係咁, 但係我覺得佢地吾係將效能放係睇一位, 而係將SOC 放係第一位, 務求減輕下級生產廠成本

liangsuilong

I don't think NEON is anywhere close to the FPU on Atom/Bobcat.

Later on, when mobile apps use mo ...
willy930 發表於 2012-11-23 13:11

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php ... exa15_gcc&num=1

Phoronix releases more results on Samsung Exynos 5 Dual. New GCC could improve the performance.

Another guy releases the result comparing with AMD E-450:
http://openbenchmarking.org/result/1211243-SU-1211246RA29

Exynos has 128bit DDR3 memory controller, more bandwidth than Atom and Bobcat. I think Cortex-A15 cannot beat Atom and Bobcat in FPU part now. But it is following up. Software still stay tuned for Cortex-A15. As we know, all the Linux benchmark is disabling VFPv4 support at this time. I could not know how much improvement from VFPv3 to VFPv4. In the past, Hardfp is also disabled by default on ARM benchmark, then we can see FPU performance is very terrible on ARM.

The story is more and more interesting. Let's see it in the future.

I am quite interested in ARM Green HPC. A SoC could  contain 16 ARM Cores in the chip, 4 Clusters, 4 Cores in a cluster.

willy930

Phoronix releases more results on Samsung Exynos 5 Dual. New GCC could improve the performance.  ...
liangsuilong 發表於 2012-11-26 00:07

The test kinda proved that Exynos 5 does have a better cache/memory system.

And ARM is finally getting very close to a real x86 CPU cores. So +1 for them.

But, don't forget that bobcat only has a 64 bit FPU. Jaguar will be the real test for Exynos 5.

And next Atom will be partially OOO too. So the battle for low power CPUs has just started.

Puff

哦原來係咁, 但係我覺得佢地吾係將效能放係睇一位, 而係將SOC 放係第一位, 務求減輕下級生產廠成本 ...
cksin 發表於 2012-11-25 23:54

Yep. Power efficiency and their own SoC roadmap at first. Performance at second.

86player

ARM百花齊放 INTEL雄風難再現於移動領域
INTEL還是專心搞好桌面電腦吧

liangsuilong

The test kinda proved that Exynos 5 does have a better cache/memory system.

And ARM is finally ge ...
willy930 發表於 2012-11-26 10:26

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php ... nos5_dual&num=1

New benchmark continues. Quad Core Cortex-A15 will be mainstream in the next year. I think it could follow up the the first generation low-end Core 2 Duo in multi-threading benchmark, at least Conroe-based Pentium Dual-Core. The story just starts at this time.

Intel maybe feels worried whether OoO Dual-Core Atom for Tablet can catch up ARM or not. I just hope new Atom will releases on time, not delay to 2014H1. I still believe OOO Atom has a great improvement comparing to in-order Atom. 40% or more? I am not sure.

AMD Jaguar core is the same. Jaguar is based on Bulldozer design. I think single core of Jaguar is not fast than Cortex-A15. Maybe one Jaguar module is equal to 1.5X Cortex-A15 core. We should not only focus on performance. Time is more important than performance.

willy930

New benchmark continues. Quad Core Cortex-A15 will be mainstream in the next year. I think it co ...
liangsuilong 發表於 2012-11-30 00:10

The next Atom will not be full OOO. It will be partially OOO. However, it will support all the new instruction set. Too early to judge its improvement over the previous generation of Atom.

Jaguar is not based on Bulldozer. Jaguar is more like a super tweaked bobcat @ 28nm.

- New L2 cache interface
- 128 bit FP Unit (Double pumped to support AVX-256)
- Enhanced Integer pipeline
- Higher clock
- 28nm

~= 15% improvement in general.

Next Atom will be release in 2H 2013. Jaguar will most likely be demoed during CES 2013 (January).

liangsuilong

The next Atom will not be full OOO. It will be partially OOO. However, it will support all the ne ...
willy930 發表於 2012-11-30 10:41

Could you talk more details about next Atom? I do not know understand how it works under partially OOO.

And Jaguar shares all L2 cache with four cores and has two 128bit FPU for per core? I believed Jaguar just have flexible FPU design like Bulldozer before. Now I should change my mind. I just hope AMD should not only focus on Windows Tablet. I hope Temash will ship as soon as possible and support Android.